DPI 
ORAL 
HISTORY 
(02}/F852 
4;5/84 
Eng. 
Cop.l 
UN INTERVIEW 
Pauline Frederick 
April and May 1984 
Interviewer: Norman Ho 
i/SA COLLECTS 
MAK 2 3 1994 
Table of Contents 
i 
ABC Correspondent i 14 
Air Transport Command Mission 12,13 
Atlantic Charter 11 
Austin, Warren 21 
Baker, P h i l l i p Noel 14,15 
Bevin, UK Foreign Minister 16 
Bidault, French Foreign Minister 16 
Big Five 25 
Big Four Council of Ministers 15-17 
Burns, James 16 
Charter 12,17,21,24,26 
Churchill, Winston 2,11,17,19,20 
Cold War 22-26 
Communist China 26 
Conception of UN 11 
Connally, Tom 14,15,17 
D-Day 13 
Early Life and Education of Frederick 1-5 
Eisenhower, Dwight 14 
Experience i n Journalism 4,6,7 
Gromyko, Andrei 20,21,26 
Hammarskjold* Dag 27,28 
International Force 25 
Israel ; 28 
Johnson, Herschel 25 
Korean War 26,28 
Lake Success 15 
League of Nations 16,17,19 
Lodge, Henry Cabot 22,23 
McCarthyism 22 
Military Staff Committee 25 
MolQtov, V,M. 12,14-16 
Nasser, Gamal Abdel 27 
NBC Interviews 9 
Nuremburg , 12-14 
Paris Peace Conference 15 
Pearson, Lester 28 
Publications (Newspapers) 7-9,12 
Quebec Meeting 2,11 
Roosevelt, Eleanor 24 
Roosevelt, Franklyn 2,11,17,19,20 
San Francisco 2,12,17,18 
Security Council 16,19-21 
Soviet Union 25,26,28,29 
Stevenson, Adlai 23,24 
Suez Canal 27,28 
Three Cent Club 18 
Truman, Harry 17 
UNDOF 28 
UNEF 27,28 
Unified American Command 27 
UNIFIL 29 
United Military Forces (QNUC, 
UNFICYP, UNTSO) 27 
United Nations Observers 26 
US Majority i n SC and GA 22,23 
vandenburg, Arthur 17 
veto Question 21,22 
'3 
Oral History/Frederick 2 
At last count I believe the number of honorary degrees awarded t o you by 
various universities and colleges stood at 22. 
I am sorry to be going on at such l e n g t h , but I f e e l t h a t these f a c t s are 
relevant to this oral history project, and I know th a t you are too modest t o 
speak of them yourself. 
Before the United Nations came into e x i s t e n c e , you were present when 
Roosevelt and Churchill met i n Quebec in 1944 and when the U n i t e d Nations 
Charter was drafted in San Francisco i n 1945. Since the U n i t e d Nations was 
founded you have devoted a working lifetime t o informing people about i t s aims 
and i t s work, by radio and television, by the p r i n t e d word and by 
public-speaking engagements' a l l over the country. These a c t i v i t i e s have 
generated an enormous amount of material, which, f o r t u n a t e l y f o r us, you have 
kept. 
Later on we may deal in more detail w i t h s p e c i f i c i s s u e s and 
personalities, but for today I propose to take you through a general overview 
of the United Nations as you have seen i t grow and change over f o u r decades. 
Now at last you w i l l have a chance t o get a word i n edgeways. Would you 
begin by t e l l i n g us something about your e a r l y l i f e and f a m i l y background? 
FREDERICK: I was born i n Pennsylvania i n a l i t t l e coal-mining town 
in the mountains called Gulitz, and i n t e r e s t i n g l y enough i t was named, I was 
always told, for a Prince Gulitzen(?>, a Russian p r i n c e who was sent t o t h i s 
country to convert the heathen. Well, o b v i o u s l y , t h a t was before communism. 
Anyhow, in that l i t t l e coal-mining town my f a t h e r was postmaster, and he a l s o 
had a so-called dry-goods store with his b r o t h e r - i n - l a w . When 
Oral History/Frederick 3 
President Wilson came to o f f i c e , my father had to look for a new job because 
he did not belong to the right p o l i t i c a l party. So we soon moved on to 
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and then on to Tyrone, Pennsylvania, where I was in 
f i r s t grade, and eventually to Harrisburg, where I can say I really grew up. 
I was the middle c h i l d of three, with a younger brother and an older 
sister. My father, after leaving the postmastership in Glitzen became 
associated with the state government in Pennsylvania in the Labour Department, 
and I recall one of his f i r s t jobs was as a mediator in strikes. He used to 
go to places like Pittsburg to try to help mediate strikes on what was the 
street railway, the tro l l e y system, in Pittsburg. 
I finished grammar school and went to junior high school in Harrisburg, 
was i n the class of the old central high school, graduated mid-year 1926, and 
then went on to college i n Washington. 
My mother was a very sweet lady who had no interest in careers but was 
just a sweet homebody, and my father took very good care of her. I t was a 
very simple home. We had our illnesses and our periods of happiness, and I 
remember occasionally winning prizes for writing some s i l l y l i t t l e essay, so 
that in school I was teased as Polly the Prizewinner, and I hated that like 
anything. I remember running away from the kids on the way home from school 
because somebody had started calling me Polly the Prizewinner. I just hated 
i t . But the prizes were important." It just so happened that the announcement 
would appear in the local paper, and the next thing I knew my father was out 
showing a l l the clippings to the neighbours. I was so embarrassed. But 
anyway he was a great supporter - I suppose my f i r s t public-relations helper. 
Oral History/Frederick 4 
QUESTION: You were also editor of your school p u b l i c a t i o n when you 
were i n junior high school, were you not? 
FREDERICK: That's right. For some reason o r oth e r , I had always 
had an interest i n journalism - i t was not c a l l e d j o u r n a l i s m then; t h a t was 
much too pretentious - but i n reporting and g e t t i n g the s t o r y out t o other 
people for them to read. I was always i n t e r e s t e d i n t h a t , from the time I 
could reach - well', we did not have t y p e w r i t e r s i n those days - from the time 
I could reach a desk where I could use a p e n c i l and a piece of paper. I went 
to camp a couple of times i n summer, and I found an o l d mimeograph machine 
when I could and fixed up a camp paper. And i n H a r r i s b u r g I had an 
opportunity to send i n so-called news to the l o c a l papers. I t was about the 
school dances or Mrs. John Doe's v i s i t from Camp H i l l v i s i t i n g 
Mrs. Richard Roe on Green Street, or something of tha t nature. So by the time 
I was ready to graduate from high school as pr e s i d e n t of the c l a s s , I was 
asked by one of the local papers i f I would come i n and s u b s t i t u t e f o r two 
weeks for the social editor, who was going on v a c a t i o n . I d i d so, and one of 
the f i r s t things I was asked to do was to cover, of a l l t h i n g s , a major 
musical event, one of the great masses. I was asked to cover t h a t , and I d i d 
not know the f i r s t thing about music. So I asked a f r i e n d i f he would go w i t h 
me. He knew something about music, and he helped me to t r y to cover t h i s , 
which I did. 
Well, anyway, after the two weeks c o v e r i n g weddings and a l l kinds of 
social events, to say nothing of this great musical event, which l a s t e d three 
nights, I was asked by the editor i f I would l i k e to have the job as s o c i a l 
editor since the social editor had decided she was going t o be married. I 
said no thank you; I was going to college. 
Oral History/Frederick 5 
QUESTION: You obviously had an early bent for journalism, but you 
went on to major in p o l i t i c a l science at the American University in 
Washington, and later received a master's degree in international law. What 
made you choose those fi e l d s of study, and what eventually brought you back to 
journalism? 
FREDERICK: Well, I tell'you i t was a matter of fate, I think. I 
decided I wanted to go to the American University in Washington, a very new 
institution, because f i r s t of a l l I wanted to be in Washington and, secondly, 
as the daughter in a Methodist family I was entitled to apply for a small 
scholarship, which of course I needed very much, and my family needed, because 
our income was very low. So I chose American University because I was given 
this small stipend, which made i t possible for me to be in Washington. 
I went to Washington thinking I was going to major in journalism. But, lo 
and behold, the school was so new that there were no journalism courses, but 
there were some very interesting courses in p o l i t i c a l science and 
constitutional law, and this was my second interest because of my father's 
interest i n p o l i t i c s i n Pennsylvania, I suppose. Anyhow, the instructor for 
these courses was a young man by the name of Arthur Sherwood Fleming. At that 
particular time he was studying law at George Washington University at night. 
I found his courses most interesting, particularly constitutional law. Then a 
debate team was set up. He was the coach, and he asked me to be on the debate 
team. So I decided, well, maybe I might as well study law instead of trying 
to go ahead with journalism, since there were no courses in journalism there. 
So I set my course for law. At the end of my senior year in college - I was 
about to receive my Bachelor of Arts Degree - I had an opportunity to receive 
Oral History/Frederick 6 
a fellowship i n international law at the graduate s c h o o l . Now, I cou l d not be 
sure that this would forward my career i n law, but, a f t e r a l l , i t was a n i c e 
fellowship, and I could stay i n Washington, and why not take i t ? So I d i d . 
I was about to receive my Master's Degree i n I n t e r n a t i o n a l Law, a f t e r a 
year, when my history professor called me i n . He was a f a s c i n a t i n g l e c t u r e r , 
Charles Calham Pent (?). I shall never f o r g e t him. He c a l l e d me i n . He had 
always been very generous in his rating of me i n h i s t o r y . He s a i d , "You know, 
Pauline, there are so many lawyers in the world today, and p a r t i c u l a r l y here 
i n Washington, and I do not think there would be too much of a chance f o r a 
woman lawyer. I think you should go back to j o u r n a l i s m . " So I decided t h a t 
maybe he was right, and that that was the best advice I had ever had. 
Furthermore he gave me an idea for launching my j o u r n a l i s m c a r e e r , which I was 
grateful for, and which turned out to be very f o r t u i t o u s . 
He pointed out that when a new ambassador - i n those days they were 
mostly ministers; there were very few ambassadors because the missions were 
not rated that high - well, anyway, when the d i p l o m a t i c r e p r e s e n t a t i v e of a 
country came to Washington, he said, he always wanted t o make a good 
impression. Now, i f I were to interview the wives of these new 
representatives coming to Washington and work i n t o the i n t e r v i e w m a t e r i a l 
about their countries as well as about the women themselves, he thought t h i s 
might make a very interesting series. So I decided - angels rush i n where 
others fear to tread - I did not know how to go about i t except to l i f t the 
telephone and c a l l a mission. I think the f i r s t one was the Czechoslovak 
Mission; I think the Czech Minister was the newest diplomat t o come to 
Washington at that particular moment. 
Oral History/Frederick 7 
I called to find out i f i t would be possible to have an i n t e r v i e w w i t h 
Madam Verderker,\\ which was her name at t h a t time, and I was asked i f the 
interview would be printed and I said, well, i t a l l depended on how the i n t e r v i e w 
turned out. So they f i n a l l y said OK, I should come. 
So I went to the Mission. The night before, of course, I d i d a l o t of boning 
up on Czechoslovakia and wrote out questions i n a notebook, one que s t i o n a t the top 
of each page. The next.morning I went t o see t h i s b e a u t i f u l blond woman. I was 
ushered into her presence, and she was so gracious and so l o v e l y . And I sat down 
on the sofa beside her and began asking these questions and a f t e r awhile she became 
a l i t t l e amused and she said that she could not help n o t i c i n g t h a t I had these 
questions written out, one at the top of each page; then I would ask t h a t q u e s t i o n 
and write her answer. She was very gracious about i t . And then I s a i d I would 
like a picture, and so she gave me a p i c t u r e . 
So I went off, and what to do next? W e l l , there was a new Chinese ambassador, 
and I decided I would try my luck there and the same t h i n g happened. I was able t o 
get an interview, sort of bluffing my way i n because I d i d n ' t know what I was going 
to do with the story. And then I went t o see the wif e of the Panamanian M i n i s t e r 
and did an interview with her. 
So I had these three interviews, and what t o do w i t h them? I had w r i t t e n them 
out, I had the pictures. Where to go from there? I s l i g h t l y knew a well-known 
p o l i t i c a l columnist in Washington at the time, a man by the name of F r e d e r i c k 
William Wyle.(?) So I decided to go and see him and ask him what I should do w i t h 
these stories, and he asked, "Would you l i k e a l e t t e r to the managing e d i t o r of the 
Washington Star"? and I said, "Would I?". He s a i d , " A l l r i g h t " . So he sat down t o 
his typewriter and wrote "Dear Oliver" and so on and so on t o O l i v e r Owen Hume,(?) 
Oral History/Frederick 8 
Managing Editor of the Washington Star, whom I had never met and knew of o n l y from 
afar. I went to the Washington Star with t h i s l e t t e r and t h i s package of 
interviews and was ushered into the presence of t h i s very dour, rough man, who 
never put his paper down from i n front of h i s face w h i l e he was t a l k i n g t o me -
just looked at me over the paper - and he s a i d , " W e l l , I'd have t o leave these 
things". He.couldn't-give me an answer r i g h t away, and I s a i d , " W e l l , i t ' s very 
hot i n Washington. I li v e i n Pennsylvania and I'd l i k e t o go home f o r the summer 
and i t would be nice i f I could have a response before I went home". " I couldn't 
possibly give you a response before two weeks". So I s a i d , "Well then, a l l r i g h t " . 
So I went back to the apartment I was s h a r i n g at th a t time w i t h a l o v e l y young 
woman who was the bursar at American U n i v e r s i t y . She was engaged t o A r t h u r Fleming 
and eventually they were married. I was l i v i n g w i t h her th a t summer. So we were 
having dinner and Arthur was there, and the door b e l l rang. I answered the door 
and there was a messenger with a package from the Washington S t a r , and I thought, 
"Well, that was over in a hurry. What do I do next?". So I signed f o r the package 
and went in and started opening i t and there was a l e t t e r from O l i v e r Owen Hume 
saying that i f a l l the other interviews were l i k e these three he would be g l a d t o 
take a series every Sunday beginning in October. I n e a r l y c o l l a p s e d . Anyway th a t 
was the beginning and from then on they e v e n t u a l l y l e d t o broadcasting. 
Even though I was diverted, for a very good reason, from going on t o law - f o r 
which I have always been grateful - I was not d i v e r t e d from my r e a l i n t e r e s t i n 
international a f f a i r s . In college I had been pr e s i d e n t of the I n t e r n a t i o n a l 
Relations Club, and of course I went on t o graduate school t o study what was then 
called international law and the f i r s t i n t e r v i e w s I d i d had of course t o do w i t h 
the wives of diplomats - which kept me in very c l o s e touch w i t h the i n t e r n a t i o n a l 
scene. 
Oral History/Frederick 9 
During the period when I was writing these interviews I was also working on a 
publication called Uncle Sam's Dairy, which was published by David Lawrence, and 
this had to do with trying to bring into focus in understandable terms the major 
issues of the day for college and high school students. I was assigned in 
particular to handle the international stories. From the Uncle Sam's Dairy I went 
to the United States Daily, which was David Lawrence's big publication then, the 
predecessor of course of the United States News and World Report, and on this 
publication I was the correspondent for three departments: the State Department, 
the War Department and the Navy Department - in those days there was no such thing 
as the Pentagon, thank goodness - and I covered international affairs from those 
three points of view, so that I have never really been away from the subject. It's 
always been my particular focus. 
And then interestingly enough - not surprising, to me - my f i r s t broadcast had 
to do with international things. I was doing the print interviews, as I said, for 
the North American newspaper, the Washington Star, and the North American Newspaper 
Alliance decided to syndicate them. As a consequence they were being carried in, 
among other papers. The New York Times every Sunday with my byline. So one day the 
only person I knew in broadcasting i n Washington, H. R. Brockett , called me up 
and said that NBC New York was trying to locate me to see i f I could do the same 
kind of interview on the a i r that I was doing in The New York Times. I said that I 
didn't now, but they wanted an audition, and since he was the only one I knew who 
had ever done any broadcasting I asked him i f he would consent to be interviewed 
for the audition and he agreed. So I went into a radio studio for the f i r s t time, 
never having been i n one before, and did an audition with him. 
Oral History/Frederick 10 
This "platter", as they called i t i n those days, was shipped o f f t o New York 
over the weekend and by the f i r s t of the week I was n o t i f i e d t h a t NBC wanted me t o 
do some kind of an interview with a woman on the a i r and d i d I have any 
suggestions? I said, yes, I did. It was at tha t p a r t i c u l a r moment t h a t H i t l e r had 
entered Czechoslovakia and taken over the Czech d i p l o m a t i c missions throughout the 
world. He had ordered them to be surrendered. The M i n i s t e r i n Washington, 
Vladimir Horbon,(?) had refused. His w i f e had been born i n t h i s country of Czech 
background, so i t occurred to me, as I t o l d the New York people, t h a t i t would be 
interesting to do an interview from the Czechoslovak M i s s i o n t o i n d i c a t e that t h i s 
was the one l i t t l e piece of Czech s o i l l e f t i n the world and tha t I would l i k e t o 
do the interview with Madam Horbon. They t o l d me t o go ahead and have i t ready i n 
two days. 
Well, I rushed out to the Czech M i s s i o n and asked t o see Madam Horbon, t o l d 
her my plan, and she looked at me and s a i d , "Ach, I would be much too f r i g h t e n e d . 
I couldn't possibly do i t " . I asked her i f her husband was home, and she s a i d , 
yes, he was in the library. I asked her i f I might see him. She s a i d yes. So we 
went down to the library. I told Minister Horbon what I had i n mind. I s a i d t h a t 
I thought i t would be interesting for Americans, i n p a r t i c u l a r those of Czech 
lineage, to know that there was one l i t t l e place l e f t i n the world t h a t was Czech, 
and that was the legation i n Washington, and tha t h i s w i f e would do a great s e r v i c e 
by responding to the interview. And he looked at her and s a i d , "Dear, I'm a f r a i d 
you w i l l have to do i t " 
So came the preparation for that, t r y i n g to b r i n g i n the s t o r y of what had 
happened to Czechoslovakia and what her r e a c t i o n would be. I worked on t h i s 
interview the night before with a fever of 104 from sheer f r i g h t because I di d n ' t 
know what i n the world I was getting into. The next morning I went t o the l e g a t i o n 
Oral History/Frederick 11 
to prepare for the interview, which was being conducted from the legation i t s e l f , 
and I found Madam Horbon looking very wan and she said, "I haven't slept a wink"; 
and I said, "I'm sorry, I haven't either". And she said, "Would you like a glass 
of wine?" and I said "Yes, I would". So we sat down and had a glass of wine and 
then did the broadcast from the Czechoslovak legation in Washington and that was my 
introduction to broadcasting.. 
QUESTION: Your early years as a journalist i n Washington were during the 
times that were rapidly changing under the Roosevelt Administration. Later 
President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill were among the f i r s t to conceive 
the idea of establishing the United Nations. What were your impressions of these 
two leaders when you attended their meeting in Quebec in 1944? 
FREDERICK: These were two fascinating personalities, as of course 
everyone knows by now, and to see them in the flesh was quite an experience -
Roosevelt with his cape and cigarette at the angle at which he always carried i t , 
and pudgy Churchill with his cigar. It was interesting to see these two men 
together who had been talking so much behind the scenes about making a better world 
from the time they had signed the Atlantic Charter to the fact that eventually they 
were going to bring about a new effort to try to save the world from wars through 
the United Nations. That afternoon i n Quebec there was a slight interruption in 
the high-minded purpose of the two men. As they sat there about to begin their 
news conference a l i t t l e dog wandered out, followed the famous dog of 
President Roosevelt, wandered around, sniffed at the feet of the great men and then 
lay down in front of Churchill with i t s legs extended and stayed there throughout 
the conference. While everyone tried to be very serious and liste n to what was 
being said, I am afraid there was more attention being paid to Falla than there was 
to the great men. 
Oral History/Frederick 12 
QUESTION: You were in San Francisco c o v e r i n g the opening weeks of the 
1945 United Nations Conference when you became a war correspondent f o r the North 
America Newspaper Alliance and the Western Newspaper Union. This took you on a 
world tour of 19 countries, including wartime China, then t o Nuremburg where you 
covered the t r i a l s of the German war c r i m i n a l s . D i d you have any experiences 
during this: period which might have increased your i n t e r e s t i n c o v e r i n g the United 
Nations? 
FREDERICK: The Western Newspaper Union, which was a boilerroom o p e r a t i o n 
for small weekly newspapers across the country, asked me i f I would l i k e t o go on a 
t r i p being planned by the Air Transport Command t o take correspondents t o 
north-east India and across the Hump of the Himalayas i n t o China to see how the 
search-and-rescue operation was being conducted. The search-and rescue o p e r a t i o n 
was an effort to save the planes that were f e r r y i n g men and m a t e r i e l i n t o China by 
the "back door", so to speak, because Japan had c l o s e d o f f the f r o n t door and the 
war was s t i l l going on there. I said no, because I wanted t o go to San F r a n c i s c o , 
and furthermore the man to whom I was a s s i s t a n t , Mr. H.R. Bockert (?) of the Blue 
Network, said he didn't think a woman should go i n t o a war zone and t h e r e f o r e he 
didn't approve of my accepting. So I went o f f to San F r a n c i s c o and was very happy 
to do so because i t turned out to be an e x c i t i n g experience. Anyhow, a f t e r about 
10 days, I realized that the Charter of the U n i t e d Nations was not going t o be 
r a t i f i e d or approved in a few days, e s p e c i a l l y w i t h 51 nations having t h e i r own 
points of view and particularly V.M. Molotov, the Foreign M i n i s t e r of S o v i e t Union. 
So one day, when I was s i t t i n g in a beauty p a r l o r having a manicure, I 
suddenly thought: how s i l l y not to go on t h i s t r i p t o the Far East; how e x c i t i n g i t 
would be. So I came out of the beauty p a r l o r , c a l l e d the A i r Transport Command i n 
Washington and said that i f the place was s t i l l a v a i l a b l e f o r t h a t t r i p t o the Far 
East I was willing to go; and t was told by the o f f i c e r at the other end of the l i n e 
Oral History/Frederick 13 
"Oh, I'm sure i t isn't available because, after a l l , i t was 10 days ago and you you 
turned i t down". So I went back to my business i n San F r a n c i s c o , r e c e i v e d a c a l l 
almost immediately from the same of f i c e r i n Washington who s a i d , " W e l l , we do have 
a space i f you'd lik e to take i t " . I s a i d , " F i n e , I ' l l take i t " . So then I 
f i n a l l y told Mr. Barkley {?), who was not very happy about i t but neve r t h e l e s s he 
couldn't do anything about i t . I had to leave f o r Washington immediately, t o get 
uniforms and the necessary shots and so on. A l l t h i s i s by way of saying t h a t t h i s 
gave me an opportunity to see what war r e a l l y was and what i t meant t o t r y having 
some kind of an organization to prevent such a catastrophe. 
We went by way of the Azores and North A f r i c a , through the Middle East, across 
what was then India - and i s now Pakistan, I n d i a and Bangladesh - i n t o north-east 
India to Chadwar(?), over the Hump into China, and then e v e n t u a l l y back by way o f , 
again, North Africa; and this time we came up through I t a l y and i n t o Germany and 
back. I saw such terrible devastation i n I t a l y , Germany, I n d i a and i n so many 
countries that I couldn't believe i t . I couldn't b e l i e v e that human beings c o u l d 
act this way, and as a conseqience i f I was ever s o l d on an e f f o r t t o preventing 
war I was sold then. I think I'd been s o l d before I went over, but I was more s o l d 
than ever and this only reinforced my i n t e r e s t i n t r y i n g t o f o l l o w through I might 
ever be able to do to try to prevent another war. This l e d e v e n t u a l l y to my 
covering the United Nations. 
On returning to Washington I was there i n time f o r D-Day which was, of course, 
a great emotional experience. But i f I was ever moved by any one t h i n g i t was that 
I had to go back and see more of the t e r r i b l e t h i n g t h a t had happened to other 
people, i n Europe particularly. The Nuremburg t r i a l s of the n a z i war c r i m i n a l s 
were coming up the f i r s t of the year and so I decided t h a t my next move was to get 
out of Washington. How could you cover t h i s vast s t o r y i n Washington any more? 
Oral History/Frederick 14 
I wanted to go to Nuremburg and see these criminals in the dock, and so as a 
consequence I went to Nuremburg and was there until June 1946. 
QUESTION: In late September 1946, now as a p o l i t i c a l correspondent for 
the American Broadcasting Company, you travelled to England on the SS Queen Mary4 s 
last voyage as a troop ship with General and Mrs. Eisenhower on board. You 
returned the following month on the maiden voyage of the Queen Elizabeth. Your 
fellow passengers were 150 delegates to the f i r s t UN General Assembly in New York, 
including.Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov, UK delegation head Philip Noel Baker and. 
US Senator Tom Connelly. What Stands out in your memory from those voyages? 
FREDERICK: Of course f i r s t of a l l the fact that the Queen Mary was going 
back into drydock to be transformed into a passenger liner again to carry 
passengers i n peacetime after carrying so many men to war and General Eisenhower's 
being aboard my ship. I did some broadcasting from London too, but (inaudible). 
On the way back on the maiden voyage of the Queen Elizabeth, we had many 
distinguished passengers on board and I had the exciting experience of interviewing 
them, many of them from the ship's bridge the night we took off and during the 
voyage. Of course the most outstanding passenger newswise was V.M. Molotov again 
whom, as I said, I had seen at San Francisco. Molotov was the focus of a l l the 
media attention. There were quite a few correspondents on this ship and I remember 
that some of the more seasoned, shall I say, of the reporters who f e l t they 
belonged to the prestigious media - the magazines mostly, like Life and Time; 
television was not very much in the picture at that time, not at a l l as a matter of 
fact, and radio was a l i t t l e b i t behind the scenes - decided that we should a l l 
cover Molotov, that nobody should get a scoop on him. And as a consequence they 
decided that a l l of us correspondents should meet twice a day and exchange a l l the 
information we had on Molotov. He was seen walking along the deck, taking his 
constitutional, or having 
Oral History/Frederick 15 
a drink or doing anything or saying a few words - which he never did, of course, in 
public - we were to report those things. So this was a very exciting experience, 
but as far as content was concerned, Noel Baker, who was coming to the United 
Nations, was a more forthcoming personality, and the members of the American -
delegation were coming back from the Paris Peace Conference - there was a small 
peace conference in Paris at that time, and that's the reason that Senator 
Tom Connelly was on board. 
QUESTION: You barely had time to lose your sea legs before you were 
plunged into covering the f i r s t session of the UN General Assembly held at Lake 
Success in Flushing Meadows. As i f that weren't enough, you were also assigned to 
cover the Big Four Council of Ministers being held at the same time in the 
Waldorf-Astoria Hotel. Can you t e l l us something about the circumstances of these 
assignments and how the Foreign Ministers' conference related to the work of the 
United Nations? 
FREDERICK: Well the opportunity to cover the Foreign Ministers came about 
most unexpectedly and for a very unique reason, not particularly unique in these 
days but i t was in those days, because I was a woman. You see at that particular 
time broadcasting, which was merely radio then - no television, f e l t that women 
should not be heard on the a i r because they did not have authority in their voices 
and therefore they could not discuss serious subjects, like international a f f a i r s , 
which was what I wanted to discuss. So I had been sent out on various and sundry 
nonsensical things i n my view - fashion shows and a forum on how to get a husband 
and so on. 
And one night I was sort of hanging around the newsroom hoping something would 
happen and there was a male correspondent there who was on staff - I was at that 
time merely a free lancer - and the editor looked up and said, "You know, there are 
two Stories to be covered tonight. One is a truck strike meeting and the other i s 
UN IS iAR 
UN/SACOU.EG 
Oral History/Frederick ^ j ( ^ 
ANNOUNCER: This i s the United Nations O r a l H i s t o r y Programme's 
f i r s t interview with Pauline Frederick, taped a t her home i n Westport, 
Connecticut, on 13 and 23 April and on 4 and 24 May 1984. The i n t e r v i e w e r i s 
Norman Hoe (?). 
QUESTION: This i s the f i r s t of a s e r i e s of i n t e r v i e w s which you, 
Pauline, have kindly agreed to tape for the U n i t e d Nations Oral H i s t o r y 
Programme. We are privileged to have your p a r t i c i p a t i o n i n t h i s programme, 
not only because of your unequalled f i r s t - h a n d knowledge of the United Nations 
since i t s inception but also because the w i d e l y recognized e x c e l l e n c e of your 
coverage of the Organization has made you a Uni t e d Nations c e l e b r i t y i n your 
own right. To many people abroad as well as i n t h i s country you are known as 
the voice of the United Nations. 
Your career as a p o l i t i c a l reporter and commentator i n broadcasting broke 
new ground for women in a f i e l d traditionally dominated by men. To mention 
just a few of the many honours you have been awarded over the years, i n 1964 
you were named Woman of the Year by the American A s s o c i a t i o n of U n i v e r s i t y 
Women for your contribution to international understanding. For two s t r a i g h t 
years you were the only journalist among the world's ten most admired women, 
as rated by the Gallup Po l l . You were a l s o the f i r s t woman to win the 
George Foster Peabody Award for your c o n t r i b u t i o n t o i n t e r n a t i o n a l 
understanding i n c o v e r i n g the United Nations and the Dupont Commentators Award 
for outstanding work i n interpretative r a d i o r e p o r t i n g . 
Oral History/Frederick 16 
the Council of Foreign Ministers. He looked at me and he s a i d , "You're a woman. I 
don't think I should send you to the truck strike meeting because there might be 
violence. I think you'd better cover the Council of Foreign Ministers". W e l l , I 
was very pleased and excited because the only reason why that particular s l o t was 
open, that night-was because the big shots, the males who were the network 
correspondents', like Elmer Davis, Raymond Swing and Martin Agronsky and H.R. 
Barkach(,?|„ who had been brought to New York to cover the Foreign Ministers at the 
Waldorf had had to go back to Washington. They couldn't wait around f o r 
Mr. Molotov to make up his mind about the treaties f o r the l i t t l e Axis nations; and 
so as a consequence the slot was l e f t open and I was asked t o f i l l i t . So I d i d 
and I covered the Foreign Ministers every night then at the Waldorf unt i l they 
adjourned some weeks later and I was very excited about i t . Of course the four 
Foreign Ministers were Secretary of State James Burns, V.M. Molotov of the Soviet 
Union, Foreign Minister Bevin of Great Britain and Foreign Minister Bidault of 
France. 
QUESTION: Afer covering that f i r s t UN General Assembly i n New York you 
went on to report and comment on v i r t u a l l y a l l the Assemblies t h a t followed as w e l l 
as the Security Council, the other Councils and the work of the United Nations and 
i t s agencies as a whole. Through the years you have known and talked w i t h famous 
people from many countries who played important r o l e s i n the growth and development 
of the world Organization. As a result, you enjoy an unusual vantage point from 
which to appraise what the United Nations has done so f a r and where i t may be 
headed i n the future. 
To go back to the very early days, there was apparently a striking difference 
between the general atmosphere and the public attitude that existed i n the United 
States towards the United Nations as compared with those which prevailed towards 
i t s predecessor when the League of Nationswas founded. How would you describe t h i s 
Oral History/Frederick 17 
difference i n the light of what you observed i n Washington and San F r a n c i s c o i n 
1945? 
FREDERICK; Well of course at the time of the founding of the League of 
Nations there was that l i t t l e group of s o - c a l l e d w i l l f u l men i n the United States 
Senate, mostly Republicans - Henry Cabot Lodge, W i l l i a m E. Borah and the l i k e - who 
decided that this.was to be the end as f a r as the United S t a t e s was concerned. The 
United States would have nothing to do w i t h . So they l e d the f i g h t a g a i n s t the 
League of Nations and succeeded i n defeating i t . I have o f t e n wondered i f , as a 
result of that, with the coming on World War I I there wasn't some sense of g u i l t i n 
Washington, not among that l i t t l e group of " w i l l f u l men", because they a p p a r e n t l y 
were too old to care. Anyhow, there were those i n Washington who decided t h a t t h i s 
time there had to be some kind of an o r g a n i z a t i o n to prevent even a t h i r d w o r l d 
war, and of course that group was led by P r e s i d e n t Roosevelt. Roosevelt was very 
anxious to have this United Nations succeed. He h e l d many conferences, 
particularly with Winston Churchill about i t , but u n f o r t u n a t e l y he di e d before h i s 
dream could be realized. So Harry Truman took up the cudgel and he named t o the 
delegation to San Francisco for the signing of the Charter a Republican and a 
Democrat - a very important Republican, A r t h u r Vandenburg of Michigan, and the 
Democrat was Tom Connelly of Texas - and they were t o lead the d e l e g a t i o n t o the 
San Francisco Conference. Before leaving they addressed t h e i r colleagues i n the 
United States Senate on their coming m i s s i o n , and at the c o n c l u s i o n of t h e i r 
speeches there was, as one observer d e s c r i b e d i t , "an uproar of approval i n the 
unusually staid Senate Chamber". Members on both sides of the a i s l e which 
whichseparates the parties, as you know, arose c l a p p i n g and surging toward the two 
men to shake their hands and embrace them. Vandenburg warned h i s colleagues t h a t 
he and Connelly could not hope to chart the mi l l e n i u m i n San F r a n c i s c o nor c o u l d 
they fee expected to bring back perfection. But the Charter they d i d b r i n g back was 
Oral History/Frederick 18 
almost unanimously approved by the United States Senate on 28 July 1945. The vote 
was 89 to 2. 
The vote i n the Senate reflected the feeling in this country that here at last 
was an opportunity to try to prevent another world war. But, unfortunately, too 
many people thought i t would be so easy, that a l l the UN had to do was to press 
some buttons and.you'd have peace instead of war. As i t turned out, this wasn't 
the case. As a matter, I heard of one group that formed the so-called Three Cent 
Club - three cents on a postcard to your senator asking him to vote to r a t i f y the 
UN Charter, and there would be peace. As we a l l know, i t turned out that peace 
isn't that easily achieved and there were too many factors involved. But i t 
remains to be said that at San Francisco there was great excitement and great hope 
that somehow or other at last the time had come when nations were going to be wise 
enough to lay down their arms and try to go to the conference table. 
QUESTION: The United Nations, when i t f i r s t came into being, was quite 
different from what i t has become in more recent years. What in your opinion are 
some of the main differences? 
FREDERICK: Of course when the United Nations was created the fathers and 
mothers so to speak, very few women were involved, unfortunately, created a 
creature that reflected to a great extent the white, Western cultures of the 
north. At that time the 51 Members reflected these particular cultures, so 
therefore the UN was concerned with reflecting this point of view. Moreover, there 
were two major problems bothering the founders of the United Nations, that i s , that 
Germany and- Japan might rise again i n their military might and therefore everything 
had to be done to try to prevent them from again being aggressive. So much of the 
Charter i t s e l f sort of reflected an attitide towards preventing Germany and Japan 
from rising again. 
Oral History/Frederick 19 
Now, as we a l l know, as time went on and many of the colonies achieved 
independence by one means or another so that a lot of small nations from other 
areas of the world reflecting different points of view, economies and cultures were 
brought into being; and the f i r s t thing these newly independent nations wanted to 
do was to become Members of the United Nations. So as a consequence, as time went 
on these l i t t l e nations were, admitted, one by one, many of them small, many of them 
poor and most of them from the southern part of the world - they became known as 
the third world nations - and as a result their points of view became more 
implanted i n the UN, their voices were raised in the interest of better economies, 
an end to a l l colonialism and various issues that interested them. As a 
consequence, instead of the big division between the United States and the Soviet 
Union, you had really a three-way s p l i t between the Soviet Union and the so-called 
free nations represented by the United States and the small third-world nations, 
and these began to reflect new programmes, new interests and new d i f f i c u l t i e s for 
the United Nations i n trying to work out some of the issues that i t had been hoped 
could be achieved by peaceful means. 
QUESTION; Unlike the League of Nations, the United Nations was empowered 
by i t s Charter to enforce peace-keeping decisions of the Security Council, with the 
concurrence of the Council's five permanent members. What considerations led to 
the choice of countries to be the permanent members? 
FREDERICK; I think the f i r s t consideration was: How many divisions does 
the Other country have? - to sort of paraphrase something Stalin said about the 
Pope - because i n order to enforce decisions i t was f e l t by the original Members of 
the United Nations that there had to be power enough to counteract any new 
aggression by Germany or Japan. As a consequence, Churchill and Roosevelt decided 
that perhaps the big policemen for the Security Council, which is what they were 
Oral History/Frederick 20 
Originally thought to be. Should include the So v i e t Union because, whether the USSR 
liked i t or, the fact remained that i t had m i l i t a r y power, and t h a t was what was 
needed- So the Soviet Union and of course the United States and B r i t a i n were 
understandably three of the five members, whereas China and France were thought of 
as belong to this group; and these became the f i v e permanent members p r a c t i c a l l y by 
the decision, I guess,, of Churchill and Roosevelt. 
QUESTION: The early years of the S e c u r i t y C o u n c i l ' s work were marked by 
dissent among the permanent members. What stands out i n your memory of t h a t time? 
FREDERICK: The thing that stands out p a r t i c u l a r l y was the emergence of a 
word that i s never even used i n the UN C h a r t e r , t h a t i s , the word "veto". I n the 
Security Council provisions of the Charter i t s a i d t h a t there had t o be a 
concurring vote among the big five permanent members, the f i v e policemen, i n order 
for a substantive issue to have any v a l i d i t y , and i t was assumed then, of course, 
that, i f there was not a concurring vote, a vote i n o p p o s i t i o n would i n e f f e c t be a 
veto. This device was not used at the beginning when the S o v i e t Union was the 
f i r s t nation to be hailed before the C o u n c i l . I t was c a l l e d i n because an 
arrangement during World War II for B r i t a i n and the Soviet Union t o s t a t i o n f o r c e s 
along the Iranian border to protect o i l w e l l s from s e i z u r e by the Germans made i t 
possible after the war for the Soviet Union t o begin extending i t s i n f l u e n c e 
without the va l i d i t y of this agreement t h a t had been p r e v i o u s l y arranged by the b i g 
Powers-. As a consequence, Iran decided t o b r i n g before the S e c u r i t y C o u n c i l a 
complaint that the Soviet Union was i n t e r f e r i n g i n i t s i n t e r n a l a f f a i r s . At f i r s t 
the USSR, represented then by Andrei Gromyko, who i s e v e r l a s t i n g a p p a r e n t l y , d i d 
not try to refute very strongly the issue t h a t was brought before the C o u n c i l and 
i t certainly did not use the veto in those days, although there were occasions when 
Andrei Gromyko became annoyed and said t h a t the C o u n c i l d i d not have the r i g h t t o 
Oral History/Frederick 21 
discuss the matter and that he would walk out. In those days, the Soviet Union was 
not sure about the power the Security Council might exert, and consequently i t 
moved very cautiously along this road without being too obstreperous; and when i t 
found after a while that the Council really did not have any power, or i f i t did i t 
did not exert i t , the Soviet Union became braver and began using the veto. As a 
consequence this became the well-known instrument in the hands of the Soviet Union 
and the veto came into the parlance of international diplomacy, even though i t 
wasn't even mentioned i n the Charter. Not only did the Soviet Union use the veto 
on an issue, but Andrei Gromyko decided one day to veto whether or not a question 
was vetoable, and then having vetoed that vetoed the question i t s e l f , and this 
became known as the double veto. As a consequence this was an issue that aroused 
the anger of, particular, the representatives of the United States. I remember 
standing outside the Security Council chamber just after Gromyko had cast the 
double veto and Warrent Austen, who was then our Permanent Representative, came 
bursting out the door, his pink cheeks pinker than ever; and I saw him and asked, 
"Have you any comment?" and he answered, "I'm so mad I don't know what to do". And 
then he went on to say, "I understand why the Russians do something like this. 
They are always in the minority; we always have a majority, and consequently, in 
order to try to prove to the world that the Soviet Union also is a major sovereign 
POwer, i t exerts the veto, and that's the reason they do i t " . 
JP/sm FREDERICK 
22 
(Frederick) 
You see, for about the f i r s t 10 years of the United Nations the United 
States had a complete, clear majority not only in the Security Council but in 
the General Assembly. We had plenty of friends to vote for our side, so we 
never had to use the veto. However, when the smaller nations, s a t e l l i t e s of 
the Soviet Union as well as the third world countries, began coming into the 
United Nations, then this majority changed, eventually even in the Security 
Council, and as a consequence the United States, which had been very proud of 
i t s veto-pure record began using the veto as well as the Soviet Union. 
QUESTION; As the Cold War was being waged in the United Nations a 
change was taking place i n the American environment surrounding United Nations 
Headquarters i n New York, with the rise of what became known as McCarthyism. 
How did this affect the United Nations? 
FREDERICK: Unfortunately, i t had a very severe effect on the United 
Nations, because many people then began to fear that the so-called foreigners 
within our midst were a l l spies, and some of the media I may say helped to 
encourage that point of view, because a spy story specially centering on the 
United Nations was always a headline story and there were quite a few of those 
that came out even though they were never really, as far as I know. 
Substantiated. Anyhow, Henry Cabot Lodge, who was then the United States 
Permanent Representative at the United Nations, wanted to be sure that the 
United Nations was purer than pure, so he took the unusual step of bringing 
into the United Nations something that had never happened before and has never 
happened since as far as I know. He brought in the FBI to fingerprint 
American employees to make sure they were loyal to the United States and not 
Spies against i t . This i s the only time I have ever heard of, and I think 
JP/sm FREDERICK 
23 
this i s true, that a national police force has been brought inside the 
international enclave which i s the United Nations and supposedly an 
international unit i n and of i t s e l f to check on i t s own employees. Moreover, 
the employees of the United Nations are supposed to be international employees 
and no longer representatives of their own national Governments. Although 
that i s not always true of some other countries, i t was a l i t t l e disturbing to 
think that we even questioned Americans at that particular time. 
Of course, Henry Cabot Lodge's efforts did not produce any spies as far 
as I know. As far as I know, no American employee of the United Nations has 
ever been indicted or convicted of being disloyal to the United States. 
As an interesting footnote, Henry Cabot Lodge, the representative of the 
United States at this particular time, was the grandson of the 
Henry Cabot Lodge who led the fight against the United States becoming a 
member of the League of Nations. Whether or not there is any relationship 
between the two points of view remains for the historians to try to evaluate. 
QUESTION: Lodge eventually l e f t the United Nations in 1960 to run 
for Vice-President on the Republican ticket with Nixon. His successor at the 
United Nations was Adlai Stevenson. What can you t e l l us about him? 
FREDERICK: Those of us who were present when Adlai Stevenson walked 
into the Security Council Chamber for the f i r s t time saw an unusual 
demonstration. Every single member around that horseshoe table applauded and 
then each one made a l i t t l e address of welcome - even the Soviet delegate. As 
I say, this was unheard of as far as most of us could remember. In other 
words, Adlai Stevenson came there as a man of the highest regard. He was 
known around the world. He was an international citizen and i t was looked 
Upon as great evidence o f the United States' belief in the United Nations that 
a man of this stature should be appointed to this particular post. 
JP/sm FREDERICK 
24 
Unfortunately, this standing did not last too long, through no fault of 
Adlai Stevenson's. Scarcely three months after he was assigned to his post 
his own Government kept him i n ignorance about the facts of the Bay of Pigs 
invasion and he was allowed to t e s t i f y falsely in the Security Council about 
that invasion. As one sorrowful observer remarked to me, "He came here as a 
superman and now he's been reduced to a man." Well, Stevenson once said in my 
hearing "I never thought they'd do this to me." 
Nevertheless, Adlai Stevenson was widely respected and deeply loved. He 
always had a quip and an inspirational word as well. I remember one time his 
saying that the United Nations diplomat was one part protocol, one part 
alcohol and one part Geritol. I think i t can be said to this day that two of 
the most respected and loved human beings who were ever associated with the 
United Nations were Americans, and they were Adlai Stevenson and 
Eleanor Roosevelt. 
QUESTION; The Cold War had another unfortunate effect on the United 
Nations. This concerned the Charter Articles on the Security Council's 
military requirements for the maintenance of peace. What happened to these 
important provisions of the Charter? 
FREDERICK; The Charter provided that member nations should make 
armed forces available to the Security Council for use in case of an 
international problem that could not be handled by peaceful means, and so the 
Military Staff Committee was set up. It was made up of chiefs of staff or 
their representatives from the five permanent members of the Security 
Council. The purpose of this Committee was to advise and assist the Council 
in i t s military operations. But because of the ideological differences, the 
JP/sm FREDERICK 
25 
Cold War, the Military Staff Committee could never agree on what force the 
United Nations Security Council should have or how i t was to be deployed, and 
so to this day five men i n spit and polish uniforms assemble in a basement 
room at United Nations Headquarters at the beginning of each month, and their 
sole function is to move over one seat to signify the monthly change in 
chairmanship - a kind of Gilbert and Sullivan performance without music or 
humour. This i s today's United Nations Military Staff Committee. 
Of course, the members of the Military Staff Committee were not 
personally responsible for this deadlock. They, like a l l representatives who 
came to the United Nations, represented their Governments, their foreign 
offices and their executive branches, and had to carry out the views of those 
Governments. So, as a consequence, the debate that ensued over this military 
force for the United Nations Security Council was marked by the Cold War 
between the United States and the Soviet Union. I think i t came pretty much 
to a head i n a Security Council meeting which I believe was in June 1947 in 
which the United States and the Soviet Union expressed their views. The 
United States, backed up by the United Kingdom, France and China, said that 
each of the Big Five should contribute to the international force that which 
each was best able to contribute - in other words, the principle of 
comparability. The Russians, on the other hand, said there should be equal 
contributions. In carrying on this debate Herschel Johnson, who then 
represented the United States, pointed out that for the United States the flaw 
in the Russian plan was that to accept the principle of man for man and gun 
for gun would keep the world force down to the strengthen of the weakest 
nation. On the other hand, the United States contended that each nation 
Should contribute what i t was most able to contribute. The Soviet delegate, 
JP/sm FREDERICK 
26 
Gromyko, argued that this comparability as i t was called opened the way for 
certain powerful nations to take advantage over others. He said "The United 
Nations doesn't need a huge armed force i f i t is sincere about disarmament" 
and he said i t was impossible to accept the principle of comparability. That 
deadlock has never been resolved and so the Security Council has never had the 
force that was provided for in the Charter. 
QUESTION: Since the police power provided for in the Charter was 
never implemented a number of ad hoc arrangements have been devised from time 
to time to deal with emergencies. Could you give us some examples? 
FREDERICK: Well, since 1947, for example, United Nations observers 
who keep watch on explosive situations and report back to the 
Secretary-General or the Security Council or the General Assembly have been 
sent to many trouble spots i n places like Indonesia, the Middle East, Kashmir, 
Greece, Lebanon and Yemen. They have usually been designated by the 
Secretary-KSeneral with a mandate from either the Security Council or the 
General Assembly. Of course, the Korean War presented the United Nations with 
a particular problem, when President Truman sent American land and sea forces 
to try to stem the invasion from North Korea and at the same time asked 
members of the United Nations to join the United States in this particular 
operation. There was a small response for military fighting men from members 
of the United Nations. In fact, most of the replies had to do with sending 
supplies to help out the repelling of aggressors. 
The Security Council was able to act positively that Sunday when the 
appeal came to the United Nations because the Soviet delegate, Malik, had 
walked out the previous January over the fact that the United States would not 
permit the seating of Communist China i n the United Nations, and as a 
JP/sm FREDERICK 
27 
consequence there was no veto to block action t o come t o the a i d of South 
Korea. Those who did respond served under a u n i f i e d American command i n 
Korea, frequently referred to erroneously as a United Nations command. 
But the largest United Nations m i l i t a r y f o r c e so f a r , ONUC, operated i n 
the Congo* now Zaire, from 1960 to 1964. That was i n response t o a request 
from the Congo for aid to help stem a r e v o l u t i o n i n the Congo when the 
Belgians released that country to independence. Secretary-General 
HammarskjOld brought the matter before the S e c u r i t y C o u n c i l , and the U n i t e d 
Nations responded to his request and this became q u i t e a p o l i c i n g o p e r a t i o n , 
the biggest the United Nations has ever known. Of course. United Nations 
peace-keeping troops have been stationed on Cyprus - t h i s f o r c e was known as 
UNEICYP - since the outbreak of Greek-Turkish f i g h t i n g i n 1964. I b e l i e v e 
something like four wars i n the Middle East produced United Nations 
peace-'keeping operations, i n addition to the t r u c e s u p e r v i s i o n o r g a n i z a t i o n 
which established headquarters in Jerusalem i n 1948. That was known as UNTSO. 
The f i r s t emergency force, UNEF I, came about as a r e s u l t of a c o n f l i c t 
among the big Powers, believe i t or not. Great B r i t a i n and France had decided 
to go in and deal with Egypt's President Nasser because he had n a t i o n a l i z e d 
the Suez Canal, and this meant military a c t i o n . The United States was on the 
outside and objected to this, and so as a consequence when the S e c u r i t y 
Council acted Britain and France both c a s t vetoes which blocked the a c t i o n . 
The United States then, under President Eisenhower and S e c r e t a r y of State 
Dulles, decided to bring the matter to the United Nations General Assembly 
instead of sending in American military f o r c e s t o t r y t o r i g h t the s i t u a t i o n . 
As a consequence, UNEF, the f i r s t emergency f o r c e , was not(?) set up on the 
mandate of the Security Council. The f i r s t emergency f o r c e , UNEF, was set 
JP/sm FREDERICK 
28 
Up by Secretary-General Hammarskjold working i n tandem w i t h Assembly P r e s i d e n t 
Lestor Pearson when the General Assembly gave him a mandate t o send U n i t e d 
Nations peace-keeping forces into Egypt t o t r y t o prevent the t a k i n g over of 
the Suez Canal by outside forces. 
I was on the plane with Secretary-General Hammarskjold on tha t p a r t i c u l a r 
historic mission and was able to go as f a r as Naples, when he s a i d t h a t 
unfortunately he could not take a reporter beyond t h a t p o i n t , since the UNEF 
forces were being taken i n by Swiss m i l i t a r y planes. This UNEF f o r c e was set 
up along a demarcation line as long as the United Nations troops were on the 
Egyptian side of the line. Israel had been a par t of the B r i t i s h - F r e n c h 
Operation against the Canal, but i t would not permit any United Nations f o r c e s 
on i t s side of the line. 
The 1973 Middle East war produced UNEF I I , and tha t was s t a t i o n e d i n the 
Sinai u n t i l , I believe, 1979. In addition, there has been a disengagement 
unit, as they are called, UNDOF, posted on S y r i a ' s Golan Heights i n 1973, and 
i n 1978 there was an interim force, UNIFIL, sent t o southern Lebanon t o 
supervise withdrawal of invading Israeli t r o o p s , which of course has not yet 
occurred/ but the United Nations force i s s t i l l i n southern Lebanon. 
QUESTION: What can you say about the r o l e of the Secretary-General 
i n such United Nations peace-keeping operations? 
FREDERICK: The Secretary-General has always been a prime f a c t o r i n 
these peace-keeping operations. For example, when the United States asked f o r 
United Nations help i n Korea, Secretary-General Trygve L i e supported the 
American appeal. Unfortunately, i t f i n a l l y l e d t o h i s departure from the 
United Nations, because the Soviet Union never forgave him. Secretary-General 
Hammarskjold., of course, was most active i n s e t t i n g up peace-keeping f o r c e s . 
JP/sm FREDERICK 
29 
particularly UNEF I and II and the Congo force, and Secretary-General Thant 
was l e f t to supervise the withdrawal of the force from Egypt, because Egypt 
would no longer have the United Nations troops on i t s s o i l and Israel refused 
to accept them. He also had to supervise the wind-up of the Congo operation. 
QUESTION; Mr. Lie was succeeded in April 1953 by Dag Hammarskjold 
of Sweden. What can you say about him? 
FREDERICK; Interestingly enough. Dag Hammarskjold was incurring the 
disfavour of the Soviet Union as Lie had, because of his operation in the 
Congo. The Soviet Union accused him of siding with the West in that respect 
and trying to keep communism out of the Congo. As a consequence, before his 
death the Soviet Union was demanding his resignation and his replacement by a 
troika. When Dag Hammarskjold was f i r s t appointed Secretary-General very 
l i t t l e was known about him beyond his own c i r c l e of immediate friends. He was 
in the Swedish Foreign Office, and i t was assumed that after Lie's experience 
he would not take too much i n i t i a t i v e but on the other hand would be more of 
an administrative officer at the United Nations. So, much to the surprise of 
everybody, he became much more of a leader in i n i t i a t i n g peace-keeping 
operations and peace-keeping devices to try to ease some of the tensions in 
the world than had the previous Secretary-General, and, like Trygve, i t was 
not very long before he was i n trouble with the Russians for what they 
considered siding with the West.